I am dreaming about boats again and was wondering if anyone has or has used and Extreme shallow. Have

ß ñíîâà ìå÷òàþ î êàòåðå è ó ìåíÿ âîïðîñû ê òåì, êòî èñïîëüçóåò Extreme shallow.

you seen the new steel bottoms? What do you guys think? How does it compare with the Phantom Sportjon?

Âû âèäåëè íîâîå ñòàëüíîå äíèùå? ×òî äóìàåò îá ýòîì íàðîä? Êàê ýòî ñðàâíèòü ñ Phantom Sportjon?

  Thanks

I have one and am happy with it. I suppose my only complaint would be the noise but all the Sportjet powered

Ó ìåíÿ åñòü îäèí è ÿ äîâîëåí. ß ïîëàãàþ, ÷òî ìîÿ åäèíñòâåííàÿ ïðåòåíçèÿ - øóìíîñòü, íî âñå êàòåðà

 boats are loud. As far as comparing it too a Sportjon there is no comparison. The XS is a much better boat

ñî Sportjet (äâèãâòåëü) - ãðîìêèå. ×òî êàñàåòñÿ ñðàâíåíèÿ ñî Sportjon - ýòî íå ñðàâíèìî. XS ãîðàçäî ëó÷øå.

 but it also costs a little more. Like they say you get what you pay for. I have only seen the steel bottom in a

ïðàâäà è ñòîèò íåìíîãî áîëüøå...........Ñòàëüíîå äíèùå ÿ âèäåë òîëüêî íà êàðòèíêå.

picture. If a guy was planning on doing some serious rock bashing it would be a wise investment but for

Åñëè íàðîä ïëàíèðóåò ñåðü¸çíî áèòüñÿ î ñêàëû è âàëóíû ýòî ìóäðîå âëîæåíèå äåíåã, íî äëÿ

 normal use the 3/16 bottom is plenty. The XS handles very well and will skim across some shallow water.

íîðìàëüíîãî èñïîëüçîâàíèÿ äîñòàòî÷íî 3/16 äþéìà (4,76 ìì) äíèùà.

 All-in-all they a great boat for the interior Alaska rivers.

 öåëîì ýòî êëàññíûé êàòåð äëÿ âíóòðåííèõ ðåê Àëÿñêè.

 

What is your fuel burn, speed and weight carrying ability? Maneuverability? How shallow can you actually go?

Êàêîå ó Âàñ ïîòðåáëåíèå ãîðþ÷åãî, ñêîðîñòü è ãðóçîïîäú¸ìíîñòü? Íàñêîëüêî ìåëêîâîäíûå ìåñòà Âû ðåàëüíî ìîæåòå ïðîéòè.

 

Fuel burn depends on speed. I have a SmartCraft guage which tells you exactly what you are burning at any

Ðàñõîä ãîðþ÷åãî çàâèñèò îò ñêîðîñòè. Ó ìåíÿ SmartCraft èçìåðèòåëü ðàñõîäà êîòîðûé êàê ðàç ïîêàçûâàåò ðàñõîä â ëþáîé

 given moment. You can stay on step and cruise at around 5.5 gph with two adults and three kids in the boat.

çàäàííûé ìîìåíò. Âû ìîæåòå   stay on step and cruise ïîòðåáëÿÿ 5,5 ãàëëîíà (21ë) â ÷àñ ñ äâóìÿ âçðîñëûìè è òðåìÿ äåòüìè â ëîäêå.

 I suppose around 700 lbs worth. If you open it up and run at top speed (around 48mph) it will burn over 12

ß ïðåäïîëàãàþ 700 ôóíòîâ (318 êÃ) â õóäøåì ñëó÷àå. Åñëè âû â"ûæìåòå äî îòêàçà" è ïîéä¸òå íà ìàêñèìàëüíîé ñêîðîñòè (îêîëî 48 ìèëü/÷àñ - 77 êì/÷àñ) òî ïîòðåáëåíèå áóäåò áîëüøå 12 Ãàëëîíîâ/÷àñ - 46 ë/÷àñ.

 gph. I normally run at about 4200rpm and it burns right about 6-6.4 gph at that rpm.

Îáû÷÷íî ÿ èäó íà 4200 îá/ìèí èïîòðåáëåíèå ñîñòàâëÿåò 6-6,4 ãàëëîíà/ ÷àñ - 23-24 ë/ ÷àñ íà ýòèõ îáîðîòàõ.

As far as weight it will pack a load. I have hauled a 600 lb 4 wheeler in the bow with 4 adults, camping gea

Íàñêîëüêî òÿæåëî ÿ íàãðóæàþ ëîäêó. ß ðàçìåùàþ 600 ôóíòîâûé (272 êÃ) êâàäðàöèêë â íîñó ñ 4 âçðîñëûìè, ñíàðÿæåíèå äëÿ ëàãåðÿ

r and a couple of small drums of gas. It jumps right on step and cruises right along loaded to the hilt. I have

è ïàðà ìàëåíüêèõ áî÷îíêîâ ãîðþ÷åãî. Âñ¸ ýòî âûõîäèò íà ãëèññèðîâàíèå ..???.. çàãðóæåííîå ïîä çàâÿçêó.

 also hauled a Moose and the same load of gear without a problem. I don't know what the exact rating is but

ß òàê æå ðàçìåùàþ àìåðèêàíñêîãî ëîñÿ âìåñòå ñîâñåì ýòèì ñíàðÿæåíèåì áåç ïðîáëåì. ß íå çíàÿ êàê òî÷íî îöåíèòü, íî

 I would not hesitate to haul a couple of thousand pounds up a shallow river or twice that if the water was deep.

ß íå êîëåáëþñü çàãðóçèòü ïàðó òûñÿ÷ ôóíòîâ íà ìåëêîâîëíîé ðåêå èëè äâàæäû áîëüøå åñëè âîäà ãëóáîêàÿ

Maneuverability is great. It handles like it is on rails rather than like you are on ice. It does not slide like most

Ìàí¸âðåííîñòü ïðåâîñõîäíàÿ. ׸òêîñòü óïðàâëåíèÿ áîëåå ïîäîáíà äâèæåíèþ ïî ðåëüñàì, ÷åì ïî ëüäó. Êàòåð íå ïðîñêàëüçûâàåò ïîäîáíî áîëüøèíñòâó

 jets so it takes some getting use to.
âîäîì¸òîâ ...........?

 

As far as shallow that is hard to judge. They say 2" but how do you judge 2" when cruising on step? It will

Íàñêîëüêî îí ìåëêîâîäíûé - òðóäíî ñóäèòü. Îíè ãîâîðÿò 2 äþéìà (5 ñì), íî êàê Âû îöåíèòå 2 äþéìà êîãäà   èä¸òå íà ãëèññèðîâàíèè?

 skim over some shallow gravel bars without a problem but when the bottom is silt it doesn't skim so well. I

Îí ñêîëüçèò ïîâåðõ ìåëêîâîäíûõ ãàëå÷íûõ ïðåïÿòñòâèé (ïåðåêàòîâ?) áåç ïðîáëåì, íî êîãäà äíî èëèñòîå îí äâèæåòñÿ õóæå.

 have went across places where you would not get the top of your shoes wet if you got out and walked. You

ß ïåðåñåêàë òàêèå ìåñòà, ãäå Âû äàæå íå çàìî÷èòå âåðõ Âàøèõ áîòèíîê, åñëè Âû ðåøèòå òàì ïðîãóëÿòüñÿ.

 can also get stuck like the rest of them when you come to a silt bar that is more than a few feet long and only a

Âû ìîæåòå òàê æå çàâÿçíóòü (êàê îñòàëüíûå?) êîãäà Âû çàéä¸òå íà èëèñòûé ïåðåêàò  áîëüøå ÷åì íåñêîëüêî ôóòîâ (1 ôóò = 33ñì) â äëèíó

 few inches deep. With the tunnel design it will run as shallow as any other Sportjet powered craft out there.

è íåñêîëüêî äþéìîâ (1 äþéì = 2,54 ñì) â ãëóáèíó. Ñ òóííåëüíîé êîíñòðóêöèåé êàòåð áóäåò òàêèì æå ìåëêîâîäíûì, êàê è ëþáîé äðóãîé êàòåð îñíàù¸ííûé Sportjet.

 The only way you are going to go shallower is with a airboat or hovercraft.

Åäèíñòâåííûé ñïîñîá ïðîáðàòüñÿ â åù¸ áîëåå ìåëêîâîäíûå ìåñòà - ýòî èñïîëüçîâàòü àýðîãëèññåð èëè ñóäíî íà âîçäóøíîé ïîäóøêå.

 

I would pretty much agree with everything Crumm said.

ß â áîëüøåé ñòåïåíè ñîãëàñåí ñî âñåì, ÷òî ñêàçàë Crumm

My biggest complaint is the noise.

Ìîÿ íàèáîëüøàÿ ïðåòåíçèÿ - øóì.

I have one of the first XS's that have the .160" bottom, the new ones have .190". I have abused my boat and my

Ó ìåíÿ îäèí èç ïåðâûõ XS (eXtreme Shallow) ñ òîëùèíîé äíèùà .160 äþéìà (4 ìì), íîâûå èìåþò .190 äþéìà (4,8 ìì). ß æåñòîêî îáðàùàëñÿ ñ ìîåé ëîäêîé

 bottom shows it. Even with big dents in the bottom the boat still handled great. I have since straightened it. If

è ïî íåé ýòî âèäíî. Äàæå ñ áîëüøèìè âìÿòèíàìè íà äíèùå ïðîäîëæàåò âûãëÿäåòü êëàññíî. Ñ òåõ ïîð ÿ âûïðàâèë èõ.

 I could take the first year off of my boat my bottom would look like new. That first year I just had to push its

Åñëè âû÷åñòü ïåðâûé ãîä äíèùå ìîåé ëîäêè âûãëÿäèò êàê íîâîå.  ýòîò ïåðâûé ãîä, ÿ âñåãî ëèøü âûæàë

 limits, and I paid the price.

âñå âîçìîæíîå ,

I would like to have the .190" with steel. My only concern about the steel would be getting water inbetween

ÿ ïðåäïî÷èòàþ ,190 äþéìà (4,8 ìì) ñî ñòàëüíûì óñèëåíèåì. Ìåíÿ ëèøü áåñïîêîèò íàñ÷¸ò ñòàëè ñëåäóþùåå: âîäà ïîïàä¸ò ìåæäó ñòàëüþ è êîðïóñîì

 and it freezing, working the bolts loose. I wonder if they use any sealant between the two?

è çàì¸ðçíåò, (ðàáî÷èå áîëòû /ñëîè îòâàëÿòüñÿ????). ß èíòåðåñóþñü - èñïîëüçóþò ëè  êàêîé íèáóäü ãåðìåòèê ìåæäó ñëîÿìè?

The Boat Shop is an awesome place to deal with too.

Boat Shop - óæàñíîå/ âåëèêîå ìåñòî äëÿ ñäåëîê.

That is for sure. They understand what service after the sale is. Great bunch of guys to deal with..

Ýòî - êîíå÷íî. Îíè ïîíèìàþò, ÷òî ïîñëå ïðîäàæè èä¸ò ñåðâèñ. Ìíîãî ëþäåé èìååò äåëà ñ íèìè..

Crumm,
I was reading an old thread and saw you have an XS. I test drove one at AK Boat shop in Fairbanks and the SJ at

Crumm, ÿ ïî÷èòàë ñòàðûå ññûëêè è âèæó, ÷òî ó Âàñ eXtreme Shallow. ß ïðîâîäèë òåñò äðàéâ îäíîãî (XS?) â AK Boat shop â Ôàéðáýíêñ è Sport Jon â

 Compeaus. The XS is the reason I travelled all the way up there from Juneau because of the tunnel, shallow water

Compeaus. XS áûë ïðè÷èíîé ìîåãî ïóòåøåñòâèÿ ñ Juneau ïîòîìó, ÷òî (òóííåëü?) ìåëêàÿ âîäà

 ability, and awesome layout/finish. However, when driving it in hard corners it seemed to bog down in the turn. More

âîçìîæíû, è óæàñíûé/ âåëèêèé ôèíèø. Êàê áû òî íè áûëî, êîãäà èä¸øü íà êðóòûõ ïîâîðîòàõ, òî êàæåòüñÿ (óâÿçíåøü?) â ïîâîðîòå. Áîëåå

 specifically the inside chine lifts up while the outside chine digs in. At a point the boat sort of popped out of the water

ïîäðîáíî - âíóòðåííÿÿ ñêóëà ïîäíèìàåòñÿ ââåðõ, â òî âðåìÿ êàê âíåøíÿÿ çàðûâàåòñÿ â âîäó. Ìåñòàìè (âðåìåíàìè?) ëîäêà âûñêàêèâàåò èç âîäû

 and the impeller cavitated. Were we just turning the boat sharper than it's designed limits? Have you experienced this

è èìïåëëåð êàâèòèðóåò. Ìîæåò áûòü ìû ðàçâîðà÷èâàëè ëîäêó áîëåå ðåçêî, ÷åì ýòî ïðåäóñìîòðåíî êîíñòðóêòèâíûìè îãðàíè÷åíèÿìè? Ïðîáîâàëè ëè Âû ñàìè òàêèå ðàçâîðîòû?

 in yours? When I later went to Compeau's and told Greg about that, he said the chines are too large for the XS and

Êîãäà ÿ ïîçæå ïîåõàë â Compeau's è ãîâîðèë ñ Greg îá ýòîì, îí ñêàçàë, ÷òî ñêóëû ñëèøêîì áîëüøèå äëÿ XS è

 that some of the lifting strakes were too close to the center of the keel and tunnel. After my experience, I got home and

è ÷òî íåêîòîðûå óñòóïû (ðåäàíû?) íà äíèùå ñëèøêîì çàêðûòû (ñäâèíóòû?) ê öåíòðó êèëÿ è òóííåëÿ? Ïîñëå ìîèõ ýêñïåðèìåíòîâ, ß îòïðàâèëñÿ äîìîé è

 lo and behold I read something almost exactly as I had experienced on Compeau's website about 'chine walk' from a

âîò è ß ÷èòàþ íå÷òî ïî÷òè â òî÷íîñòè êàê òî, ÷òî ÿ èñïûòàë íà ñàéòå Compeau's îá ýôôåêòå 'chine walk' îò ïîëüçîâàòåëÿ êîòîðûé èìååò îáà?

 user who has owned both. I also noted that the XS kind of turns, rather pivots, around the center of the boat rather than

ïîëüçîâàòåëÿ êîòîðûé èìååò îáà? ß òàê æå çàìåòèë, ÷òî òèï ïîâîðîòà XS äî íåêîòîðîé ñòåïåíè ïîâîðîò âîêðóã ñòåðæíÿ - âîêðóã öåíòðà ëîäêè

 carving like a ski or 'sliding & gliding' smoothly through a turn like the SJ. Do you notice the same thing? Since I am

òî÷íåå êàðâèíãó ïîäîáíûé ëûæíîìó èëè 'sliding & gliding'  ðîâíî ÷åðåç ïîâîðîò ïîõîæèé SJ. Âû çàìåòèëè òàêóþ âåùü (ÿâëåíèå?)

 brand new to jets I'm not quite sure what to expect or to look for. Is this just a not so suttle difference between the two

 boats and hulls? Even with the extra 600lbs I thought it performed great but am a little concerned about a moose, ATV,

 2 guys and gear. It appears from your post you haven't had any issues? I have a Hond Rincon at a full 7 feet long...do

 you think it would fit in the bow or will it only fit smaller ATVs? I really like the XS but became a little concerned after

 the test drive. Since you own one, I thought you might be able to offer some more specific thoughts on its

 performance. Unfortunately, I don't have a dealer here and can't get that second ride or look. Thanks, theclaw

Excserpt from Marathon Marine on chines in turns: "the lift effect on the reverse chine (pdf) does not really show itself until higher speeds are reached.
Öèòàòà îò Maraton Marine î ðàáîòå îòîãíóòîé ñêóëû íà ïîâîðîòàõ: "ïîäú¸ìíûé ýôôåêò îòîãíóòûõ âíèç ñêóë ðåàëüíî íå ïðîÿâëÿåò ñåáÿ äî äîñòèæåíèÿ âûñîêèõ ñêîðîñòåé.

So, you may ask, that sounds great, why do you not use it? The downside of the reverse chine is that it only

 works well at high speed and in a straight line. As soon as you start to turn, it makes the boat rock from side

 to side, known as chine walking. On turning, the inside chine generates lift, forcing the side to rise up - but

 the chine cannot support this extra lift, so the side falls and the chine digs in or ‘hooks’. This process of

 lifting and

falling or wobbling throughout the turn is called chine walking.

So, going back to our original philosophy, if you want a fast boat and will be doing most of your running at

 50+ mph, then a reverse chine boat is probably the one for you. If however, you are like most of us and cruise

 at 30 mph with occasional bursts to the high 40s and spend time doing lots of turning while wakeboarding,

 cruising twisty rivers or lakes, then you should question whether you want the reverse chine."

Excerpt from Phantom SJ customer: "The Extreme has a stiffer feel. With its heavier weight, its handling

Öèòàòà îò ïîëüçîâàòåëÿ Phantom SJ

 responsiveness leaves much to be desired. The Extreme also had a particular unnerving habit of grabbing

 water on corners. At the beginning of a sharp turn the boat would lean into the corner, but as the boat speed

 drops the outside corner will begin to drop back into the water. Then the 90deg chine’s will make contact

 with the water. It will grab hard enough to make passengers grab onto anything to keep from hitting

 something. You would also have to immediately compensate your steering as your direction would change"

You can turn too sharp to the point where the boat will pop up and spin right around(comes in handy

 sometimes when you want to turn around in a hurry). When turning sharp you have to work the throttle and

 steering to keep the intake in the water. When turning not so sharp they handle like they are on rails. They do

 handle differently than most jets as they don't slide as much, they cut more. Once you get use to the different

 feel you will find that they are very predictable. Only time they slide rather than cut is when the water is very

 shallow or when you hammer the throttle in the turn.


 

Tell Craig that the bottom on his Sportjons are too thin and guys are getting tired of having them welded up.

 When you have a boat that cracks just from being hauled on the trailer just how long will it float? They are

 lighter though.

 

They do turn rather than slide like a SJ. The XS hooks up and corners like a sports car on dry pavement rather than a jalopy on ice. Very predictable.

  My Honda Rubicon fits just fine. I don't think the Rincon is any larger. 2 guys, ATV, Moose and gear would be no problem. The XS is heavier but that is because it is thicker.

Some guys like the SJ, some like the XS. It all comes down to personal preference in the end. If you get back up here next summer drop me a line and I will take you for a spin in mine. Just jumping in at the dealer for a quick ride does not really give you a feel of just how well they handle. There are definitely some improvements that could be made but side by side the XS is a better unit than the SJ in my opinion. I checked both out long and hard before I purchased mine.

__________________
Crumm

SuperDutyDiesel.com

Thought I'd throw this in. A guy in Fairbanks with a center console XS cut the strakes off the back few feet of his boat. He noticed a difference right away. I came from running airboats so I'm used to varying the throttle in tight turns and became comfortable in the XS immediately. I also prefer the build and features of the XS to the SJ.

I have no experience with either boat but have heard of enough issues with the thin and poorly structured bottoms on the SJ to stay away from them. When a boat bottom fails just from being trailered there is a serious problem.

Thanks for the additional info and offer for a ride Crumm. If I don't end up ordering something in the next 2 weeks, (we have the advantage of running year round down in Southeast and I want to have something by early spring), then I may take you up on the ride offer. Thanks for the photos of the Rubicon; turns out it's exactly the same length as my Rincon. Looks tight, but it is nice to know it will fit! I bet getting to the front from the helm is a bit of a trick since you can't open the door!

Aztec has built SJs with 5086 3/16" and 31" sides ( a friend has one ), but they retain the same stringers/headers. They put lifting strakes and a very small reverse chine since they can't bend ice runners into the hull. It's definitely heavier. As far as the handling, I suppose it's just what you like and are used to. I'd be reluctant to cut anything off of my factory hull. When I met with Glen Wooldridge a few months ago, he was adamant that a jet boat should never slide out, and should track on step in a hard turn and I think that is what the XS is shooting for. If pushed to far it's at the expense of speed and possibly popping & falling off step. SJ users prefer the "slide" as the boat doesn't slow or settle into the water in the turn which could be important if you have to do a quick 180 in shallow water. If you fall off step, you may not have the water to get back up. And of course this is at the expense of control.

In any case, I think I'm on board for an XS very soon.

The next major concern is noise; I think the XS is definitely the loudest in the bunch of sportjets I've heard. I know there's some other threads dealing specifically with this issue, but it seems to me that the manufacturer really needs to address this. Boat Shop said they were trying to get Jetcraft to use hushmat instead of bubble wrap but I haven't heard if this has gone through yet.

I will vouch for Wooldridges ability to keep tracking no matter how hard you cut it. Yes it does cause a bleed off of speed but then again no matter what load I have I can let go of the steering wheel and it stays straight. It is nice not having to constantly fight the steering while in the lakes and ocean.